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Before I joined this forum (5 May 2008) Articles that were not fanfictional and not canon (Or "Fancruft" for short) were frowned apon. Such articles like shipping articles were not allowed and fan discussions were limited to the Fandom forum. Fan Articles in the Mainspace were not allowed. (Mainspace where all SNN articles are) Due to not really having anything to do with canon Sonic and that Sonic News Network is for accurate information that benefits Sonic fans.

However ever since I joined, I believe that Fan Articles should be permitted!

The point

When I first joined, my first Mainspace article was 'Sonic Fan Characters', this got attention because since it was about fan characters. I have presented my points and reasons why I believe it is worthy to remain mainspace article and not forum. (While fan characters are fictional, they are, by fact "fan characters" of Sonic relation). Right now I am Head of the Forums, I believe this grant me power to move my article as a mainspace article, backed up with the added poll in my favour. The only reason I have not done this yet because I am still waiting for the concent to do this and fear it will be a long wait until someone brings the fanon matter settled.

of course not just writting this all for one single article.

I really do believe that some fancruft is worthy of mainspace articles. Some fan characters who have been benefitial to the fan community and fan games that have our love. I am talking about the fancruft that is of importance to the fandom in general, after all while such shipping as KnuxRouge may not be canon due to both characters living different lives. It is still benefitial to the fans interest as well as initiated by the attention of 2 canon characters.

I had simular discussions with other members on this permit (SLJ, Fairfield and Kagi) on a variety on fanbased issues. One of the problems we worried about is those who will consider this a right to have fan articles of any old fancruft on the mainspace. After considering I have finally come to a conclusion and suggestion on how to over come this.

Fancraft Admins

So I believe that certain Fan Articles should be allowed on Mainspace, not all of them. I believe there should be some conditions fan articles should meet to be a mainspace article. I haven't written them out yet, but an idea is some voluntary or promoted Admins to check over fan articles for approval. It will be a bit of a hassle since granting the Fan Article permission will means a small boost in Mainspace page numbers, but if there are those who share the same thoughts as I do and want to be a Fancraft Admin, then with the set conditions that must be uphold along with a large quantidy of Fancraft Admins it should be easier to control.

I know very well of our Sister Wiki, Sonic Fanon Wiki but for articles that are not approved Fanon Admins can ask page authors to consider it an alternative.

My last request

That the templates {{Fanfic}} and {{Fanon}} should be combined and used by Fancraft Admins.

--Mystic Monkey 03:02, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

um, Mystic, I've been waiting to do any kind of request for awhile, but could I ask to be a nominate for a "fanon admin" like you are saying? I'm sure that I'm capable of deciding whether or not fanfic is mainspace-acceptable (for ex. the popular sonic flash game is worthy but not a user fan character)--Milotheechidna 03:27, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, the point on this topic is to be permitted to finally accept fan articles on the main-space and for this order of admins to keep it under control and in check. I am more an Extra Help Admin so prefer permission by Runner-Up High Quality Standing Users and Admins. As a Voluntary support-admin I try not to over-step my lines and be as helpful and supportive to all, but would really like a 'Yes' or 'No' by now for fan articles in mainspace, especially my first article to return as mainspace.--Mystic Monkey 17:20, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess I could volunteer as a Fancraft Moderator--Milotheechidna 16:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Thats Appreciated. The more mods helping out, the more easier it would be control if Fan Articles are accepted.--Mystic Monkey 17:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that Fanfic could be acceptable in mainspace, we just need to make preparations, like templates, and categories. Then after that I think Fanfic will fit perfectly in SNN mainspace. Please Note:I am just a user, not an admin --Shadow the Hedgehog Befriend me... Or perish at my feet! 19:06, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Not fanfics, but articles on certain well-known fanfics.--Mystic Monkey 21:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I see now. Not Fanfic in particular, just articles about the Fanfic. Am I on the same page now? --Shadow the Hedgehog Befriend me... Or perish at my feet! 21:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. I just need general permit for Fan Articles in the mainspace. I shouldn't just go ahead with it as I am not Admin of everything.--Mystic Monkey 19:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

This isn't the Sonic fanon wiki. We can NOT have irrelevant info here, no matter how popular the fanfic is. Besides, if we allowed that, users would add all sorts of fan junk to pages, and get away with it by saying "fandom is allowed, so I'm not breaking the rules!" -- Shelly the Hedgehog ShellyAdvance 23:08, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course this isn't the Sonic Fanon Wiki so if they waste our time with articles on some random fan character we haven't heard or care about then they will be breaking rules. However if it's a fan article on a subject that is well known about such as Sonic Robo Blast II (So deserves a mainspace article), or fill a planned set of guidelines then it may be permitted. If it does not fill guidelines it will not be allowed.--Mystic Monkey 23:52, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

One word: Loophole. Let's say we did put some fangame articles here. Then, some doofus from NewGrounds (a website that lets you create your own games) will claim he made a Sonic game that deserves a fan article here and it turns out his game is neither good nor popular. Even if that's not the case, I still vote against it. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying that I worry about the constant valdals coming here and when nobody can stop them the vandalism remains. -- Shelly the Hedgehog ShellyAdvance 01:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

If his or her game is crap. It will not be accepted, plain and simple. Of course it's not just about how crap it is but how popular it is, Besides I am only expecting a few fan articles worthy as well as shipping articles. Besides loop-holes can be patched up.--Mystic Monkey 20:51, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm still a little skeptical, but I'm not an admin so it's your call, I have no right. -- Shelly the Hedgehog ShellyAdvance 22:55, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Your oppinion as a member still counts. I know what your fearing and I have been considering an effective way to overcome it. Fancraft Admins seems like a reasonable choice since we will be doing what regular admins do. Checking over articles that are not vandalism or spam and that accepts our set rules. If they do not we delete them so we won't accept all Fan articles. Only the ones that deem worthy like Sonic: Nazo Unleashed. Some have actually tried writting this article but got deleted in the past. This time I am giving it consideration and the {{fanon}} so it is a fan article. The reason whi I believe this article should be accepted since it's a very popular fan flash as well a slots of effort and attention has been given to it so it isn't some second rate sprite animation. Uh however since I am pressed for time I couldn't finish it but will when I return.--Mystic Monkey 12:22, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Shelly. I think this will cause more problems than it solves. The following issues need to have some serious consideration:

  • Who decides what counts as notable fanfiction? Will it be a single person or several? If single, what prevents bias in their decisions? If several, what happens if people disagree?
  • What are the limits on fan information? The Nazo Unleashed article is almost entirely plot summary, which is fine for a canon story, but for fan info it makes the article itself dangerously close to fanfiction.
  • What types of articles are acceptable? Will we accept characters from notable fan works, or only the fan works themselves?
  • How do we deal with inter-linking? Will it be acceptable to link to a fanon article from a canon page, e.g. Sonic the Hedgehog (character)? If so, won't this inevitably lead to large sections containing nothing but fanfiction? How do we intend to prevent that?
  • Who will vet the admins being appointed to moderate this, and how? How do we prevent them from turning into an isolationist community, as fanfic authors on this wiki are prone to becoming anyway?
  • Most importantly: why is this information not better served on the Sonic Fanon Wiki, which is explicitly designed for fanon info?

More questions will probably occur to me in time. Feel free to answer in any order. -- Supermorff 21:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

"Better served on the Sonic Fanon Wiki". Perfectly explained. Putting ANYTHING non-canon to the games, shows or comics would make any idiot feel that he has the rights to put WHATEVER fanon he/she wants into mainspace. And soon, the fanon/vandalism would build up before the admins can catch up and Sonic News Network would have no choice but to disband. -- Shelly the Hedgehog ShellyAdvance 02:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

"Sonic News Network would have no choice but to disband." *Hand shots up* Sorry Mystic, but with stakes like that, I don't think the idea's so hot, unless you make some specifics to prevent such risks.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 02:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Besides, you know how users like to get crazy with their fanon ideas (I know I did when I joined this wiki) so if a certain user got really busy, they could put us outta business. If you care to debate on this with me, Mystic, please do. I'm just very concerned about the wellfare of SNN. -- Shelly the Hedgehog ShellyAdvance 03:32, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I actually do have plenty of specifics and answers to support my idea, in fact most of these questions you are asking are clearly answered on the top of this article! To have a "team" of voluntary admins (not a bunch of old people arguing) sorting what kind of articles are accepted and how they are judged. The fan articles that are rejected shouldn't be a problem as we used to get vandalism and spam awhile back (Rejected articles would be suggested to the Fanon Wiki), though I haven't seen spam and vandalised pages in awhile which I pressume it's the nice work of our members and admins working together to cut down on the problems and making the wiki work. So with the right help I don't see much of a problem. I am asking to allow certain permitted fan articles such as ones that benefit or be of most interest to the general fandom itself because thats pretty much what all the information on this wiki is aimed at, us fans.--Mystic Monkey 21:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Another idea is instead of a team, just simply allow fan articles but add set of rules the fan articles must go by. I only suggested a team because I know not many are thrilled with fan articles. People who find them could add a "fan-check" tag, simular to a "Speedy deletion" tags.--Mystic Monkey 22:16, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I assumed you meant that the team of voluntary admins (all admins are voluntary anyway, but we'll overlook that) would patrol the new pages and pages marked fanon and weed out the fan articles that don't meet the standards that someone elsse had formed. But you're saying that the team will actually decide on a case-by-case basis whether an article is worthy? That seems doomed to failure. We're opening ourselves up to wild inconsistency in how we deal with fanon on the site.
And again you are throwing terms around that you haven't defined. How are do any fan articles "benefit" the general fandom itself? Why isn't there an equal benefit to having such articles in userspace or at the Sonic Fanon Wiki? Before I even contemplate pushing this any further, I would really like you to explain why you think this is an improvement over the current system. You have not yet done that - you have, at best, given platitudes and suggested methods of damage control.
Please realise that I'm not trying to attack you, but several of us have mentioned risks inherent in your idea. Limiting the risks is great, but it's still not worth taking them if we don't gain anything at the end of it. -- Supermorff 18:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
I admit this idea of method is not perfect. The main problem was preventing idiots believing they can have fan articles here whatever it is about so this current idea seems more logical. But what we would have a gain from accepting the certain fan articles will be opening ourselves more to the general viewers and fans who have come to this SNN to learn, also it's important to know what the topics on the fan articles stand for and that would be of praise and based on Sonic. I feel that accepting fan articles would hold a sense of benefit. I know that there is some flaws and at times I do believe that with only a few fan games and fiction out there thats really worth the attention. I know there is the Sonic Fanon wiki, but with all due respects the wiki is more of a novelty wiki that an actual wiki. People post there ideas for games and characters and the articles just build up and be forgotten, though it has catagories of character and situation type, it lacks organised catagories on fan games and fiction that are completed and such so people really just post anything there. While the Mobius wiki is an actual wiki purely for the comics and I first wondered if we need our wiki pretty much copying these articles. But I think despitethe fact I turn to the Mobius wiki on Archie based Sonic, I still think that Archie Sonic info also belongs here since it is still part of Sonic. So yes, my idea ain't perfect, Id hate that the decision will be post-poned even further and would like to know if fan articles would be allowed. As for how it will be sorted I now understand I will need more time and help in sorting it all out.--Mystic Monkey 22:40, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but is English not your first language? I sometimes have trouble understanding your meaning. Are you saying that we should have fan-based articles to attract more people to the wiki? We have quite a lot of users, so that doesn't seem like a big priority for us. -- Supermorff 23:33, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
English is the only language I know and I practice my spelling. Not exactly more users, more information for the users and visitors.--Mystic Monkey 00:45, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Your spelling is perfect as far as I can tell; it's the choice and ordering of words that sometimes throws me. Anyway, I apologise.
I still don't understand. You say that including fan articles would provide more information, but we already allow fanon to be included in userspace, so there's already room for the information. Why do you feel that the fanon could not be just as well presented in the format we currently allow? -- Supermorff 07:24, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Because of fanon information that isn't ours such as fancruft that deserve attention, as well as the general interest of the subject. And yah, I do have a bit of poor choice of words. I find it difficult explaining my views especially fear of giving the wrong idea of my reasons. If I can sum it up as short as possible I believe that some fanon is of information and benefit to relate to Sonic, simular to the comics and cartoons.--Mystic Monkey 20:15, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
You're saying that moving certain articles to mainspce will get them more attention from users? This I do agree with, but I'm not as convinced as you are that this is a good thing. The comics and cartoons - even where they are not within the continuity of the games - still had to be checked and given the ok by Sega. But there's no such oversight of fan games/stories/characters, except what we provide ourselves, and frankly I don't trust our ability to do it properly, whatever systems you put in place.
We could (and I say this with some trepidation), try to set up a new namespace called 'Fanon' or something, for notable fan articles that fall between those that belong in userspace and those on mainspace. It's a compromise, I guess, but frankly I'm still concerned that some users might see this as an opportunity to fill a new namespace with their own creations. We could specify that any articles in the new namespace would have to be referenced from both primary and secondary sources in order to avoid deletion? That is, you'd need a reference to somebody that has talked about the info on a completely separate website from the one it first appeared on. Hm. -- Supermorff 16:46, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
What is "Namespace"?--Mystic Monkey 18:30, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Well, we could try locking this "fanon namespace" so that only logged in users/admins ma edit it. -- Shelly the Hedgehog Amy to Shelly 23:03, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Namespace is the general term for groups of articles like userspace (prefixed by User:) or talkspace (prefixed by Talk:) or mainspace (no prefix). I don't know how easy it is to lock a whole namespace, but we could ask a wikia helper about it if Mystic thinks the idea is worth progressing. -- Supermorff 16:12, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Well, if it's possible, this could really open up some room for my pairing idea, since IP's would be locked out, only Users would be able to edit the article(s). Bannable Users, by the way.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 16:18, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

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