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THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY HAS A SAY IN THIS, NOT JUST THE ADMINISTRATION STAFF.
I must say, I dislike a lot of what's going on in this Wiki, and I want to create some new, fair rules. I'm not going to make the same mistake SLJCOAAATR 1 made while he was "in charge." I want to make agreeable rules here, and I need your help.
First thing's first: Fandom. I understand one of our fellow 'crats, Mystic, had in the past created an article worth including, but was sadly changed into a forum. Now, ALL fandom should be kept in forums, userspace, blogs, or Sonic Fanon Wiki, but information about fan characters, in general, deserves an article here, don't you think? -- Shelly the Hedgehog I'm not a monkey! 03:04, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
I'd have to more or less agree with 58. A page about fandom in general seems like it might be a good idea, but it carries quite a bit of risk, especially with rookie users.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 06:08, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Fna articles in mainspace is something I always supported, but like this topic (which I am ashamed manage to sum it up so gracefully what I been trying to since I joined) to have certain articles on the Sonic fandom that is still of general relevance to Sonic. I never intended that allowing fan articles in mainspace would give the obligation to spammers to go ahead and make useless fan articles. It's just some fanon information would still be of interest and importance to those who are researching Sonic. I understand that it may lead to idiots believing they can post there fan characters and game ideas but thats what I am against. If it's not of general information or interest to the general fandom itself then it is not worth it. After all an't we all Sonic fans benefiting from the information on SNN?--Mystic Monkey sez 20:38, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I have to agree with 58. No matter what we do, there will always be Sonic fans just dumping their stupid fanchars onto whatever site they can find, regardless of the consequences. So, bottomline, there can't be any articles on fandom here on SNN. -- Shelly the Hedgehog I'm not a monkey! 05:32, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
Me and Smurmoff go neck-and-neck at this. While I admit these debates ticks me at times, I know he means well but it does ticks me. >_< Anyway just wanted to put up some talk pages from various articles. Nazo Unleashed talk (A rather popular Flash series I thought worthy of general interest), Dr. Robotnik song talk (I thought that this counted more for general Sonic related information than that of fandom related). Sometimes Supermorff gets to me even if he does mean well. And yeah he does present good points that I consider over in my own times. But I still believe we can have fan articles on certain information (like certain fan projects of major general itnerest to the fandom) without the place falling apart, that it would actually be of benefitial knowledge to those researching on SNN. After all, arn't we fans too?--Mystic Monkey sez 10:41, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- I believe you mean Papa Smurmorff! (Either that or it was a typo, I guess...)
- I've given this a lot of thought, and I appreciate what Mystic has tried to do (honestly, I do). It's just, I've trying to think the whole thing through to its logical conclusion, and I can't see any way of making it work in a permanent and sustainable way. The important thing is to draw a big black line between "things we want on the wiki" and "things we don't want". At the moment, this big black line clearly separates any fan-made info (that is, anything that is not produced, licensed or endorsed by Sega) from official material (that is, anything that is produced, licensed or endorsed by Sega). I think that this is a really clear definition, and easy to enforce.
- The idea of including any fan-made material whatsoever means that we necessarily have to redraw this line, but I don't think that there are any boundaries that are as clear-cut as the one we use right now. If you include Nazo Unleashed, then how about we include other online fan videos, then how about the characters from these videos, then how about fan characters in general? Where is the line we can draw that prevents fan characters from overwhelming the site? Please, if you have one, let me know. I would love to know. But I don't see one.
- Shelly raised the idea of including a single article about fanon in mainspace. I can see this working in one way: if we construct the page so that it does not refer to any specific fan-made information at all. This won't be easy. The page will in a sense be an overview of fanfiction in general, coupled with an admonishment not to include any on the wiki... except that's pretty much what Sonic News Network:Fan fiction is, so what's the point of making another one? -- Supermorff 13:44, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
I always try to think outside the box. The reason why I selected Nazo Unleashed was because it was both well known and generally on Sonic. I believe fan works should be at least considered carefully than rejected as fans who are researching Sonic may want to know about the fan work. Instead of the fine line between what is fanon and not, how about between what is information and not?--Mystic Monkey sez 16:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
Mystic, theoretically yes, having a small number of articles means that they are unlikely to see that article if they use the 'random page' function. Except 1) that's not the only way people find pages and 2) you're not suggesting any mechanism for preventing the numbers from increasing. If your restriction is "well known and generally on Sonic", then that gives users vast room to quibble. People will argue "well I've heard of it, therefore it's well known". In fact, I'd never heard of Nazo Unleashed before coming to SNN, and I've never heard of it anywhere else. Are you sure it's well known in the community as a whole? Or is it, say, well known among people that like Sonic fan videos?
The main thrust of your argument seems to be "people have a right to know". Sure they do, why not. But we don't have an obligation to tell them. They're more than welcome to go to places like the Fanon Wiki, or the Fanon Comics Wiki, or any of the myriad other websites to get their Sonic fanon fix. They come here to get official, reliable information about the Sonic series. And that's how it should stay. -- Supermorff 09:36, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
OK, you have a point. The reason why I suggest Nazo Unleashed was because while there will be quibble on those who haven't heard of it, through this wikia they can. Of course I understand this would leave an exposed weakness on what other fan articles can come on and not which is why I suggested that the fan articles fufill certain points like still being on general Sonic attention than it being someones story. If we do not have an obligation to say about certain fan articles that are of sonic informtaion and interest and that people are looking up on them, would wiki's swamped in other fan stuff be a best place for them really? For example, lets say someone was researching some decent Sonic fan games, games that you can actually play and talked about, but throughout Sonic Fanon wiki I have found articles about fan games but without links or such things that actually lead to the game. So while the game talks about a fan game it doesn't actually present one. Sure there are some articles that say it's in production but there are some articles there that are forgotten and such. I am not saying that they won't be done, but what is the percentage of those that actually do get done? In other words if I started some articles of general interest but just so happened to be fanon so best off at SFW, it would have a less chance of being seen over there than among here. It's why I began with doubts about posting my fan game ideas on SFW because while I do believe someday I will make my games, I decided to post my fan game ideas to see if I get some attention on them but because it's all silent I feel no one really cares or believes me and that not only I am wasting the page-viewers time but contribute to a problem for those looking for specific information on SFW but having a hard time among the other articles.--Mystic Monkey sez 18:52, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
- Hm. Have you seen the Sonic Fan Comics Wiki? I don't really use it, but it seems to be for fan comics that have been published. Admittedly, there's some roleplay there too, but... The point is, it's a fan wiki, but it's not bloated out of all proportion. Maybe what you're really looking for is a wiki like that, but not restricted to comics. You might like to ask them if they'll expand their scope to include videos. Or maybe you could start your own wiki (e.g. at w:c:sonicfanvideos). I'd certainly be happy have SNN be affiliated with a site like that. -- Supermorff 19:32, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
- I agree. Actually, it's just occurred to me, we could have links to the Sonic Soundtest Wiki in the same way we have links to the Mobius Encyclopedia. Hm... Might have to work on that. -- Supermorff 20:12, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
So what will happen to the Sonic Fanon Article? I think it may still have a place on mainspace since it can still count as general Sonic information. But also it's dear to me being my first ever article. :3--Mystic Monkey sez 20:34, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry, man, but I just don't see how to make it workable without causing other problems down the line, except by stripping out everything that makes it worthwhile (as I mentioned above). -- Supermorff 20:36, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
You could always put a warning at the top saying somthing like "this artic is about fan characters in general. fan characters should be kept in userspace." that just my ideaG e r o yo 20:42, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well I think we have a way to move forward, with trying to build up some affiliate sites with this kind of information. (I just realised I misstyped the link to the Sonic Fan Comics Wiki above - I've now fixed it.) Mystic, if and when you decide how you want to proceed, let us know and we'll help out. -- Supermorff 07:43, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
I just realised I made a mistake on my previous question.
So what will happen to the Sonic Fan character article? I think it may still have a place on mainspace since it can still count as general Sonic information. But also it's dear to me being my first ever article. :3--Mystic Monkey sez 19:40, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
Well I read something in the rules about not having Non-Sonic character articles and that it may change later. We could change it now I suppose. I think some articles are already there. As long as the characters were in a Sonic games (ex. Mario characters) Cheetahfly 22:09, July 11, 2010 (UTC)