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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to Sonic the Hedgehog series page.
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I think we should add a Sonic the Hedgehog 2 section for the MS and GG before the Genesis version on the chronology section as it take place before the console version.KHedgehog (talk) 19:16, April 14, 2014 (UTC)
- No it doesn't. If anything, it takes place after its 16-bit counterpart. -- 19:47, April 14, 2014 (UTC)
Given the current protection placed on this page, something must be done about the Chronology section. The short-term solution is something I've already brought up twice - leave Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood in the Miscellaneous section, provided that said section has its main text updated to reflect the fact that it no longer solely contains games generally lacking a storyline.
This seems to be the simplest solution at first, but I think this has already been attempted before, and it caused some disagreements over what is or isn't considered a "miscellaneous" title, as well as some confusion over the idea of "Miscellaneous" and "Non-Canon" (which we've tried as a separate section before, but I think it unofficially continued ArchangelUK's antiquated "guilty until proven relevant in business" line of thinking which in itself caused more clashing edits). The root of the problem is that everyone has a different idea of chronology - if I remember correctly the earliest version of the Chronology used a lot of guesswork to place the games in order of character introduction and "lighter/simple -> darker/intensive" (hah!), whereas the latest version is a lot more objective than that and leaves the question of canonicity mostly up to the reader to decide as a sort of "maybe it's canon and maybe it's not" marker...but it still inevitably uses some theorizing to piece certain titles together, and obviously not everyone is going to be in agreement.
What can be done about this? My other idea is more work, but I think would have more of a long-term effect and will prove to be more stable, resulting in less editor unrest than the Chronology section currently invites. I propose to simply do away with it. Now, I don't mean get rid of it entirely. What I really mean is to place a lot less emphasis on putting the games in a fixed order, which is where the majority of disagreements arise. The fact is that the Chronology section can be a tad problematic in a long-running series where the timeline and history is occasionally disregarded and very much selective based on the tastes of the current creators and writers.
Specifically, these are the steps that I have in mind:
1) Merge the Chronology section with the List of games article. These pages are already close to accomplishing the same goal, the main difference being that one distinguishes them on the story level whereas the other categorizes them on gameplay genre. Either this article can contain a redirect to the list article, or the list article will become a section within this one which replaces Chronology. This would also be more fair to fans of the other continuities, as, for example, there's an article for the Archie universe but there isn't a separate one dedicated to individual issues (as far as I know).
2) Continuing with the above, let's keep an objective approach for the combined list - it makes the most sense to retain the order of initial release this way and to disregard listing it all in a "story-based" order. The List of games is already a lone article that simply lists the video games, with no expanded information on those titles. Meanwhile, the Chronology section right here is already practically that same list, but uses a touch of speculation (which is generally discouraged) to rearrange the series when applicable. Bottom line is that I think these two sections can be easily merged together, maintaining the chronologically-released order from the List of games article yet noting anything relevant about how the title in question respects series history (or not). If merging the articles is viewed as a bit too extreme, that's fine; the main idea is really to enforce less speculative about the order and to simply list things as they are (and no separate category for Miscellaneous, especially if genres will be carried over from the List of games; if Sonic Boom becomes big enough, then perhaps it'll do as its own genre).
3) On the other hand, keep the summaries under each title. This goes over a brief look at gameplay conventions, characters introduced, special gimmicks such as the lock-ons of Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II and, yes, the game's individual storyline. This will essentially be the part of the Chronology section that will remain. If certain storyline elements are self-evident (ie. Shadow's amnesia/status) or there's an official source out there that lists a placement (such as Ken Balough suggesting where Sonic the Hedgehog CD and Sonic the Hedgehog 4 might take place), this will be referenced in the body, but it will not affect the order the games are listed. The summaries will be for readers who are interested enough to figure out the timeline in their own heads for themselves, but the Wiki will not outright conclusively state for them where or if things actually belong. The primary reason for this is that contradictions are shown to indeed occur even in supplmental and interview material, as even the most reliable sources can be fallible or sometimes just change their minds.
4) In case any contradictions arise in re-release material (such as adding characters or seven emeralds that shouldn't exist yet, both so-called "canon-breaking" offenders of the critically-acclaimed 2013 mobile re-release of Sonic the Hedgehog), the original release of the game will the only one truly worth mentioning in the game's summary. In the event of entirely separate releases of the same game seeing a simultaneous release (such as the Wii and DS counterparts of Sonic Colors with slightly altered storylines), the game summary will give priority over to neither. Stuff that is exclusive to each edition is often inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, and can simply stay noted in the game's respective articles.
5) Finally, the above also conveniently applies to the region the game was originally released first, provided significant differences exist. That way, there is the universally-agreed "canon" storyline of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (which single-handedly propagated the fan-favorite concept of "Japanese canon" or "SegaSonic"), while also giving no specific region or release any particular bias, as Sonic the Hedgehog is a worldwide phenomenon and should be treated as such. This goes with the above - outside of the original Japanese manual of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 clearly having the official background of how Sonic and Tails met, every other significant change in the early days also happens to be completely inconsequential. Again, detailed differences between storyline regions is not important information outside of the game's respective articles.
That was a tad longer than expected, but any further suggestions, objections or concerns are very welcome. The Chronology section in general has caused much confusion that I'm starting to think it's had a good run, and I do believe a long-term revision such as this is necessary in order to satisfy as many Wiki-goers as possible and prevent edit conflicts in the future. If it's all right, I may post a work-in-progress revision based on the above in my user page if that helps to get an idea of what I have in mind. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:12, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
- See prospective revisions based on the above guidelines here. I've already taken care of it, so if this gets the go-ahead then all that needs to be done is replace the Chronology section with a link to the new List of games article. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:55, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
- I moved the Chronology section to my page, so if anyone wants access to it without rooting through the revision history, it's there. TehDonutKing (talk) 02:02, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
List Of Sonic Games In Chronological Order (So Far)
- Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
- Sonic Eraser
- Sonic CD
- Sonic Arcade
- Sonic Labyrinth
- Tails' Skypatrol
- Tails Adventure
- Sonic the Hedgehog 2
- Sonic Spinball
- Sonic Chaos
- Sonic's Game World
- Sonic the Hedgehog 3
- Sonic Blast
- Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island
- Sonic the Hedgehog 4
- Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
- Sonic Drift
- Sonic Drift 2
- Sonic Crackers
- Knuckles' Chaotix
- Sonic Triple Trouble
- Sonic Saturn
- Sonic R
- Sonic The Fighter
- Sonic X-Treme
- Sonic Pocket Adventure
- Sonic Advance
- Sonic Advance 2
- Sonic Adventure
- Sonic Shuffle
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
- Sonic Pinball Party
- Shadow the Hedgehog
- Sonic Battle
- Sonic Advance 3
- Sonic Rush
- Sonic Rush Adventure
- Sonic Next-Gen
- Sonic Rivals
- Sonic Rivals 2
- Sonic Riders
- Sonic Riders 2: Zero Gravity
- Sonic Free Riders
- Sonic and the Secret Rings
- Sonic and the Black Knight
- Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
- Sonic Unleashed
- Sonic Colors
- Sonic Generations
- Sonic Jump
- Sonic Dash
- Sonic Lost World
Is there a timeline to add?
(It's Thinking 2......... 23:28, July 30, 2014 (UTC))
No, read the above "solution" topic to see what happened to it.
This is about a new, what-if Sonic the Hedgehog character, imagined to first appear in a what-if Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) remake (alternate reality). The character also has relatives and people, new, what-if Sonic the Hedgehog characters as well.
Theseus the Minotaur is a fictional, what-if future character from the Sonic the Hedgehog series, (currently imaginary). He is an anthropomorphic Minotaur, at least two hundred where he is the last survivor of his family and people and protecting his time by traveling to the past,